Creatives Like Us Podcast - Ep2
Subscribe to the ‘Creatives Like Us’ Podcast newsletter
Stay informed and be the first to know when new episodes drop.
In this first episode of Creatives Like Us, Angela speaks with Dominique van Werkhoven, a writer and co-founder of The Werks, about her journey as a creative entrepreneur. Dominique shares her experiences of building a career in writing, running a small business, and collaborating with other creatives. She reflects on the importance of representation, discussing her time as one of the few Black students at Oxford, and how breaking barriers can inspire others. The conversation looks into the power of collaboration in creative work, the balance between personal and professional creativity, and the pivotal role mentors can play in shaping careers.
Meet the guest
Dominique van Werkhoven
A born and raised Londoner, with Guyanese and Jamaican heritage, Dominique is a freelance copy and content writer, now based in the Netherlands. Together with her husband Gideon (who is also the co-founder of their three children), she runs The Werks – a website development and copywriting micro agency helping impact led small businesses to get found and to show up online, with confidence, purpose and joy.
Links for Dominique
Links and Resources:
The Werks Website: https://thewerks.nl/
Instagram: @WeAreTheWerks
Dominique’s Advent Project: @NomadSixtyOne
LinkedIn: Dominique van Werkhoven
Links for Angela
This podcast is hosted by Angela Lyons of Lyons Creative.
If you have any questions or suggestions or would like to be featured on this podcast, please email angela@lyonscreative.co.uk
You can follow and connect here:
Instagram
LinkedIn
Podcast website
Instagram - Creatives Like Us Podcast
Join the mailing list
You are also invited to join us for our in-person event, 'Creatives Like Us', in London, on Thursday 13th Feb 2025 - buy your ticket here.
Links for Heather
Produced by award-winning media and marketing specialist Heather Pownall of Heather's Media Hub
Connect with Heather on LinkedIn
The opinions of our host and guests are their own.
If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate, review and subscribe with the podcast provider of your choice or leave us a Google Review here. Thanks!
Time Stamp
Can you introduce yourself Dominique?
Do you write for clients, yourself, or both?
Did you train as a creative writer?
What was your experience at Oxford University as a person of colour?
Who has influenced you over the course of your life?
What are you working on right now?
Transcript
Hello and welcome to Creatives Like Us, where I speak with creatives of colour, who share journeys and stories and ideas, and how they can inspire and open up avenues in creative industries. I'm your host, graphic designer Angela Lyons, and with the help of my guests, I will bring insightful interviews and compelling stories that can inspire you to think about things differently or shape your next move. Being a creative of colour can bring its challenges - highs and lows and in betweens, but this podcast is about amplifying our voices and celebrating together. So are you ready? Let's get started with Creatives Like Us.
Angela
Good morning, Dominique, thank you so much for joining me today. And this is the first episode of the podcast, Creatives Like Us, and I feel really honoured and blessed to have you here today and talking to me. So thank you so much for being here today, and I really appreciate it.
Dominique
Thank you! Yeah, it’s so much fun! And I'm honored to be the first, yeah, part of the first recording. And this is big stuff!
Angela
We've been talking about it for a while, haven't we, and I'm just like, I'm gonna do it now, let's do it. And especially because it's Black History Month this month, in October in the UK. So I really wanted to make sure that at least I got the first episode recorded during Black History Month, even though it might get released later on down the line. But it's good to get it out now today and talk to you here. Thank you again for joining me.
Dominique
No, it's my absolute pleasure. Like, I think, from meeting earlier this year and then getting to know you a little bit, and then yeah, being a guest on your podcast. Like, yeah! Peak!
Angela
Brilliant, brilliant! So let's start. Would you like to introduce yourself and tell me where you are in the world, and what type of creative are you?
Dominique
Yeah. So my name is Dominique van Werkhoven. I'm a London (originally a London girl), so South East London, woop! But now I'm living in Rotterdam in the Netherlands. And got there via France, via Austria. So it's been a few places, but now in Rotterdam. And I am a writer, so I run a small business with my husband called The Werks, and it's content and web development for small businesses and nonprofits. And my side is really the writing, all the writing that goes on the website, all the writing that comes on social media. That's what I do for clients. And I also have an aspiration as a writer, in the sense, like, I'd love to write a book one day. So that's also on my list to do.
Angela
Interesting, brilliant. So what type of writing at the moment, you said you have your book to do? Are you actually doing personal writing for yourself at the moment, or is it mainly focused on work, or is it a bit of both? How would you say that you're using your creative juices? I know, obviously we've got to work, and we've got to pay the bills, so we've got to write for money. But is there anything in your personal life that you love doing?
Dominique
So, yeah, I think I've always really enjoyed writing. My background is also that I worked in nonprofits for a while, and I ended up often doing the newsletters. It wasn't necessarily even part of the job, but then, because they need the newsletter, I was like, I'll do it. And so I've been actually writing for a long time, and I think up until now, most of my focus has been on, yeah, has been on kind of writing professional capacity. But about three years ago, I think I did a project on Insta, and basically brought together, I think about 30, yeah, around 30 different creatives. So they were like illustrators or musicians, spoken word artists, all that stuff. And I brought them together. I was like I want to do an Advent project, and so I will write four different Advent blogs, and then each of them can represent something from those, from that blog. So I want to use my creative juices and on the right stuff, but I want to bring others with me. And so that was a really fun project that I did.
Angela
Wow, that's amazing. Was that just via, via web and Instagram?
Dominique
Yeah I was like okay, I'm gonna try it. The idea came in the summer, and then I was like, Okay, I have to pull it all together, contact everybody in my network, all the artists in my network, and be like, do you want to join in? Or if they had something already, I thought, can they use it, or are you happy for me to use this in this project? And yeah, lots of people said yes - to my surprise!
Angela
Oh that's excellent! That’s really interesting, because that's what I want to do with this podcast, is bring the creatives together and talk about our work. And that's great that you did that. Is it still online, if people wanted to see it?
Dominique
Yeah, I mean the Insta account is still around, so it's called NomadSixtyOne (https://www.instagram.com/nomadsixtyone/) so that's still running. But I think I did that project, and I was like phew okay…
Angela
I’m done?!
Dominique
Yeah, but hopefully yeah, I think the idea of rekindling something similar, or at least when it comes to my writing as well, is definitely there. And I just, I think the idea of a collaboration and how you can bring people in, that's really stuck with me. So I think even when I pursue my own kind of personal creative writing, there's always going to be a part of me that says, Okay…
Angela
Who can you bring along?
Dominique
Yeah!
Angela
That’s excellent. That's great because it is about bringing other people on, making other people rise too. And also it's good company. Otherwise, sometimes when you're doing these things by yourself, it's quite lonely, isn't it?
Dominique
Yeah, exactly. And you get to see something, somebody brings a different perspective, of a different element that you might have missed, and said that's really lovely to do it together. And you know it’s okay, somebody who's gonna see the stuff, there’s two of us who are going to see the stuff!
Angela
We’ve got friends, we can show our friends!
Dominique
We’ve made progress!
Angela
Exactly. So you say you've obviously loved always writing. Did you actually train? Educational wise, was that part of a secondary school, degree level, or where did you train?
Dominique
Yeah, my educational background is in law. So I studied at Oxford. I did a BA in law, with French law. And so you do, there's a lot of writing involved with that, like, lots of essays, a lot of reading. You have to think about, oh, this area of law, like, how do I want to structure my essay and the arguments that I have?
And I think from a really young age, because I really enjoyed writing, I was often found with my notebook, or making up stories. And I think just the practice over the years has been something that I have kept doing. And then the more you write, the better it becomes. So the more experience I have helping other people, write and one of the things I got to do was a friend or a contact was writing a book and she was like, could you please read the few chapters for me and just, give me your feedback on those chapters. And I really noticed how much I enjoyed that process. To be like, well, what's the message? And maybe if you phrased it this way, it would really lift it up a little bit, or have more of an impact. By doing that, you also learn to become a better writer, because you're having to think about, well, what's the message here, and what worked really well here, what didn't, and how could I then put that into my own writing?
Angela
It's funny, you mentioned Oxford. I'm always in awe of people that go to Oxford or Cambridge, and like Yale or Harvard. It's just that, obviously it's the creme de la creme of universities. People, when you get there, people say, yeah it’s all right.#
Dominique
Yeah, it’s okay…
Angela
Just obviously, because this is a podcast and talks to people of colour, what was your experience like at Oxford? Because I know that being in England, it can be quite a place where you are the minority. I know that I was when I was at Central, and that really stood out for me. Didn't bother me too much at the time, but I know that it actually bothers other people that were black and studying at the same time. Did you have any experiences that were positive, negative, or just, was it just okay?
Dominique
Yeah, I think in my actual time at Oxford, you're aware that you're the only one. Or in my whole year group, so there were, I think I don't know, like, if you have, you have your first year school alumni photo, yeah. And then you see, like, your photo, like all the first years, and there are two of us in I think it must be at least, I don’t know 100 or more students?
Angela
I was in 96 and I think there was about 4 of us?
Dominique
Yeah. So you're just like, you're aware, like, it's not hard to find you, like, you have the whole picture and like, where are you? Oh, there I am. I think, honestly, I wasn't necessarily busy with it the whole time, but there's definitely a sense of like, people are like, oh, what clubs are you joining? Are you going to join the Afro Caribbean society? And there's like this almost automatic assumption, that there's nothing else that you're interested in. Like, Oh, you must be a part of that. Yeah, I am. But there's also, I'm really into this .
Angela
The crochet club or the tennis club!
Dominique
Yes! And that was interesting, just the like, kind of natural assumptions.
Angela
Was that assumptions by other black students, or both, or white students?
Dominique
No, not really, the black students were more like, Okay, we're going, or maybe you want to come. But there was never an assumption from them. That's the only clubs that I would be involved in. It was more from others. They were like, oh, you know, that'll make you feel really… that'll make you feel really home. Like, yeah, it's important to have these spaces, but I think there's a risk that it becomes limiting, so people only expect you to be in those spaces and not to see you in others. So I think that often the thing for me was, okay, how do you turn up in spaces that people don't expect you to, but without becoming the token person? And it was funny, because I think in my first or second year, I got an email like, Oh, we're making photos for the new prospectus, would you be interested in being involved? I was like, Oh fun? Like being in the prospectus. But then it was like, I was on the front cover. I was on the law page, I was on the poster in the admissions office.
Angela
You were the it girl!
Dominique
And it was just like, I mean for my friends, it was like, it was just a funny thing, like Dominique, how is your face everywhere for this, like, for one year? But then for my granddad, it was huge, because he was like, I think he asked me, Can you get a few, like, get a few copies? Yeah, I want to show my friends. And he lives in Guyana, so he was like, show our friends. But it was again, you have this, yes, we want to display our diversity, we want to show that Oxford is a place for black people to come, and black students to thrive and to enjoy, but at the same time, like there really isn't, there aren't that many. So we're gonna, once we found one, we're gonna use that.
Angela
Yeah, but also we could see the flip side of it, where it's also an encouragement thing to other black students joining, or wanting to join, thinking, Oh, actually, there is somebody there that looks like me, or there are people there that I will feel comfortable here, and again with the societies. At least they can go to those societies if they feel like they need to talk about something. In a way, yeah, of course, they will use you as the ‘there she is’. Also, as I said, on the flip side, it's also good for prospective students to actually come and see.
Dominique
Yeah, definitely. I know that that happened, because I was at a wedding, and one of the Philip, like, the year younger than me, she came up to me, was like, oh, can my dad meet you? I was like, okay, because he saw you on the prospectus, on the cover, and like, he really wants to meet you. Because for him, it was a big deal to see other black people at Oxford and to know that his daughter, who's going there, who's also black, like, okay, there's space for you and you're going to be okay. And she's actually gone on to do amazing things, like, she is the head of a big organisation, and I see her a lot in the public eye, and she's doing a lot for STEM and it's, yeah, it's amazing! But it's cool to know, like, oh, because of that bit of representation, because somebody was able to see themselves on the cover of the prospectus, and it made it feel easier for them to step into that space. And I also did a lot of work with access, so they're kind of trying to bring inner city young people to Oxford to help them get in. And yeah, this is not just for a certain type of people. It's for everybody.
And I remember lots of the young people saying, oh, but there aren't a lot of black people, so we can't go. And I was like, if we all keep saying that…
Angela
It's never gonna happen, yeah.
Dominique
There won't be. So we need to, like, step into it, and the more we step into it, the more others can follow. And so I think there's this kind of this double side of being the first, and like, stepping into a space where you're really noticeable and you maybe feel a little bit alone, or having to deal with certain assumptions. But I'm like, once that barrier has been broken and that door has been opened a little bit, it means it can open a bit more, and then more and more people can see themselves.
Angela
It could just take that one thing, couldn't it? I know that I've spoken to people in the past when I've been on work photo shoots or something like that, and there was a guy there who was a photographer, and he was the assistant. And I said to him, we'll just point to the side. And I was doing the art direction of it, and I went to the side, and it was a black guy, and I said, Oh, why are you the assistant? You're really good. I've seen your work. Why are you not the photographer? Why are you still the assistant? He's like, Oh, you know, not too sure about this. And then years later, he saw me on LinkedIn, or something like that, and he texted me and he said, if it wasn't for you, talking to me that day, I wouldn't have thought to do my own thing. And I've seen this guy like doing stuff like beauty brands, and I'm just like, you see that?
Dominique
Oh look at that!
Angela
It's just like that one conversation, and you don't know who that touches. Is there anyone in your work life or even personal life that's made you change direction? Like, I call it the catalyst connection. So just like, you think, oh my god, they've actually spoken to me, and I've done something amazing. It's moved on to my next path of my career and my life. Is there anyone in your world that's actually done that for you, where you think that's actually quite major, and I've got to remember them for that.
Dominique
Yeah, I think I've got a couple of people, and I think it's interesting, because the more that we've gone into freelance life or having a small business, there's a lot of, I don't know, inside work, so you start to realise things about yourself, and then it's remembering, oh yeah, like, that seed was planted, was actually planted not two years ago when we started the business, but when I was still a child, and one of the people is my godmother. She's passed away now, but she was, like, one of the biggest champions of me telling stories. And so like, I would go to have sleepovers at her place, and her kids would be like, ‘Nooo, not Dominique’. So she would like come and say to me, because the others just didn't want me there. But then she would like sit up with me, and listen to these stories that I'd made, and always encourage me, and always said, tell me more, and how does that work? I just felt really taken seriously by her at age five. But I was like, oh, yeah, I have something to say. And I think now fast forward, when there's so much influence around the world that you can think, Oh, who am I to say something, I've got nothing to say. She always encouraged me to use my voice, and actually took the time to listen. So I think she was one of them.
The other one is my secondary school teacher, my English secondary school teacher, because he actually sat down with me to do my application for Oxford. And it was interesting, because there was a special group that was invited at my school to apply to Oxford or Cambridge. They would get to do things like learn to play bridge, or go to the theater and all this stuff. But I wasn't invited to be in that group because there was not a belief that I was an Oxbridge candidate. So there's this group, and you're like, Okay, fine, but then this English teacher was like, you're gonna apply, aren't you? I was like, Oh no, because I haven't been invited to the group. He's like, you've got six choices, we're gonna make it one of yours, and because the Oxbridge applications need to be in a little bit earlier, he was like, we're gonna work on it, like you're going to bring me your personal statement, let me read it. We're going to go through it. And so he met with me and one other student to work through our applications. Both of us had not been invited to the kind of special program,
Angela
The bridge club!
Dominique
The bridge club and the Latin club, but this teacher saw us and he said, I'm going to support you. We're going to work on your application. And I think, Oh, if again, this kind of somebody sees you and sees your potential, and that, for me, is like, yeah, I still, I still remember to this day. And also my application, when I wrote it, I remember, I had a quote like, you know, like few people can change the world, it’s the only thing that has, like, very idealistic.
Angela
Was that your own quote?
Dominique
It was from Marianna Williamson, I think. And I was like, Oh, am I allowed to put that in there? Because it doesn't feel very academic? He’s like no, that shows who you are and, like, why you want to study law, and we're gonna, we'll work that phrase in. And I loved it because he didn't try to take it out. He just was like, Okay, how are we going to use it to present a strong application. Yeah, like, it's okay to be creative, even though the ones that are very formally written, but you can be creative with it, and it's okay.
At the beginning of this year of course (because I think we met on LinkedIn, right?) and then I contacted you, oh, hi, or you contacted me afterwards. Hey, I saw you had a chat with Kaylee, and I'd love to have a chat with you. And we said, Okay, this year, we're gonna be more visible, like, we're gonna apply for podcasts, and we're gonna do all this stuff. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I can't, this is Ang, she can do all this.
Angela
And I'm like, going to you for support!
Dominique
And then watching you, but also being invited by you, and being included by you, and the encouragement both publicly but also privately. I think, oh yeah, like this has been, for me, personally, a really big encouragement and reminder to take up space, and to be who you are, as you are, and to just to try, and it's okay to be different. But yeah, so I think seeing that professionally and then being in our little group where we can send messages and encourage each other and be like, Oh, here's a frustration, or here's a challenge, I think, yeah, that has been, oh, there are other black creatives, black business owners, and I can, yeah, I can plug in here and it's not restrictive.
Angela
Oh, that's brilliant, wow.
Dominique
That was a long answer to your question.
Angela
Oh, no it’s a good answer! It’s really really nice, and it's also good to talk to other, especially business owners, because, as I said, sometimes we'll be very lonely, and we just support each other and just chat with each other and just help as much as we can, really. So I'm all about helping if I can, someway or other. So I just want to ask about what you're working on now. What is your project with The Werks? Is there one big project or one project that you love doing right now, or who would you love to work with right now?
Dominique
Yeah, those are such good questions! Like, currently our focus is wanting to support smaller businesses, freelancers who would love to have their website, to show up online, but are just a little bit nervous, who basically were us two years ago. And we build websites in WordPress, the tech side, is definitely off putting for a lot of people. So one thing we're really working on, and hoping we'll have ready by the end of this year, is an easy access WordPress template that people can just put their content in.
Angela
Oh, so people can buy a template, like a small business or freelancer, and buy the template from you, and you've created it yourself, and then they can set up. So basically, a quick, easy setup for them, for their business?
Dominique
Yeah. So the idea is that it's a little bit DIY, but then as a support, like I would provide kind of guidance. Okay, this is going to be your headline, here are some things to think about what you might put as your headline. Here's what you're going to maybe do for your footer. These are different components that you need to think about when you're writing. So what we would do, or what we're going to do, is have a kind of a guidebook, which will help them know, okay, this is going to be your headline, here's what you should think about for your headline. This is what can be in your footer, on your 404 page. These are the different components that are going to go into your website. Here's what you should think about, because we've noticed, especially with services like coaching or psychologists, they tend to want to write their own content, because lots of them are kind of writers, or they feel like they're kind of good with words. But then the danger is, is that, yeah, I'm not doing my hands here. … but they have a lot to say and want to write a lot. How can you condense that down? Save your longer articles and essays for a blog post, maybe. But even then, think about how you're formatting it, because one big block of text is quite off putting. So don't forget spaces, and just something they can refer to, especially in the beginning, you don't necessarily have the budget to work with a copywriter on your stuff, or you want to do it yourself, or just having some insights to guide your writing so it doesn't become overwhelming and too much. So with the idea that when you buy the template, you also get this kind of guidebook, and you also cover some things like about hosting, and domain name, and all those kinds of stuff. And then we also offer one where you can book us in for an hour or two to talk you through stuff. And it's great, but it also takes a lot of work.
Angela
Yeah of course, because that is, I suppose it's building a pipeline, isn't it, that could be also a bit of passive income. So it's just, obviously, you've got to work hard for it, but it's there on the side that you can actually find people and people can buy it, download it, and then you'll carry on your day to day. But it's such a good idea, so I will put a link in. People can go and have a look at that later.
Dominique
I’ll keep everybody updated. And then next to that, like I said, I mentioned this idea of wanting to write a book for myself, and so that's my project that I'm working on in my spare time. I'm laughing because I'm like…
Angela
Spare time. What is that?
Dominique
…Three children and you're running your own business? Yeah. Okay. I love the ambition to keep the dream alive. Small bits. And I think that's really helpful for me, because doing those little, small bits of where I'm working on my kind of passion project, where it's not necessarily, at least not now, for any income. It's not to serve an audience that I have that's waiting for content from me, being able to build it and to take my time with it.
Angela
And there's also no client pressure, because you are the client.
Dominique
And I think that's really fun to do. And then to think about, Okay, how are you going to then? Is it going to be a newsletter form just to start getting the writing out there? And I'd like to think also that by indulging in my own creativity, that's going to also flow into how I write for others, because it's not going to be just technical tick, tick. Oh, I thought this was a fun idea from something completely unrelated. How can we bring that into this field? And I think that's one of the things I love about diversity, is that you can take things that already exist from different cultures. I mean, like, oh, let's bring that in here, and let's weave it in. Or have you heard this, like this person speaks so well about this, or writes this so well about that? How can we incorporate that into kind of a completely unrelated field, but that kind of adds a new dimension. So, yeah, combining that, like my own creative pursuits, with writing for others, I think it can only be a good thing.
Angela
Exactly, it keeps your creative juices flowing and just keeps you going, yeah. I love that you said about diversity and seeing things in different areas, because we forget sometimes that there are so many different aspects we can draw on, and we just need to pull them in and just use those in our work, even day to day, our creativity. And it's just like, Oh, I love that.
I'd love to know if you had to write a little note to yourself when you were say, in secondary school, what would you say in that note? So a note to yourself?
Dominique
Yeah, I think about what I would do because I remember at that age being so aware of other people's opinions, and yeah, what's the right way to do things? And I think I would tell, my little note would be, like, you'll find your own way. Fitting in is overrated.
Angela
It so is!
Dominique
So overrated! And when you feel that uncomfortable feeling where you don't fit in, like breathe through it and keep going.
Angela
That's amazing. Yeah. That is so true. That's such a good point. Especially at that age, you just think that you're not going to fit into this group or that group, or even that Oxford application, like you didn't think that it was going to happen, and you just went through it, did the process, and look where you are today.
Dominique
Thanks to teachers that encouraged.
Angela
Okay, so we're ended up it's going to be on every episode, obviously.
Quick fire questions, and it's just you have to answer one of them, quick fire.
Five questions are starting with…
Crisps or chocolate?
Chocolate.
Angela
Beach or forest?
Dominique
Beach.
Angela
Book or Kindle?
Dominique
Oh, book. It has to be a real book.
Angela
Yeah, you want to fill the pages?
Okay, cool. Reggae or Soul?
Dominique
Oooh Reggae, Soul. That's impossible. Like what’s your favourite child?! No I’m going to go for Soul because that's what you're belting out in the shower.
Angela
True thing. Yeah, Lovely. Patty or Sandwhich?
Dominique
Patty! Everytime.
Angela
Lovely, brilliant. Thank you so much, Dominique for being my first guest today. And can you tell people where they can find you online and your website and your social media handles?
Dominique
Yes, happy to. So we are on Insta as @Wearethewerks and LinkedIn is my name, Dominique van Werkhoven and the website is https://thewerks.nl/
Angela
Brilliant, the Netherlands, cool. And I love the way that you spell The Werks. because it also has a little play on your surname. So that is W, E, R, K, S, just to let people know, but obviously that will be again in the notes. So thank you so much. I appreciate you.
Dominique
No, my pleasure, and I'm really looking forward to listening to the episodes that are coming. This is a fun project, so you're well done.
Angela
Oh, thank you.
Let me start by giving thanks. Thank you for tuning in to Creatives Like Us. I hope you enjoyed this episode and found it thought provoking, inspiring and entertaining. If you did, it would absolutely make my day if you could share, subscribe, rate, review, wherever you get your podcast from. Also, if you have a question or a comment, I'd love to hear from you, all the ways to connect are in the notes, until next time, keep being creative like us.
